eprom editing w/ jackal, and Zeitronix questions

[turboawdfanatic]

I apologize in advanced for my n00b questions! =P

I've been reading as much as I can about ds-map and my head is spinning. I'm already using Ostrich w/ TunerPro and want to move over to a SD setup, but there's a few things I'm still not grasping. The main thing I'm wondering is if I'll still have the ability to code some of the custom things using Jackal that I have in my TunerPro ECU. For example, I've altered code to turn the stock boost gauge into a knock gauge, and I've implemented phantom knock elimination below a 0psi. I see that hakcenter has implemented a bunch of standard features already, but if there's something I want to edit manually (ie knock gauge), can I still do that w/ a hex editor like I do with my tuner pro setup, or is the code changed significantly so that this isn't possible?

Aslo, I'm running a Zeitronix wideband with a GM 3 bar map. I saw the hakcenter has added gm 3 bar map support. How can I wire the 3 bar map to Zeitronix *and* the sensor harness for the ecu w/o compromising the signal? And finally, how should I wire the Zeitronix wideband for Jackal? I currently have the analog wideband output going from the ZT-2 to the EGR-t input on the ECU (for logging w/ mmcd), and I'm using the purple ZT-2 wire for simulated narrowband going to the ECU's O2 sensor wire. Do I need to make any changes there?

Thanks for any help pointing me in the right direction. Sorry if this info has already been posted. I've been searching but I'm overwhelmed w/ the amount of info available here!

EDIT: just realized stock boost gauge *is* a knock gauge already...but the question about being able to make changes applies.

[FluxCapacitor]

turboawdfanatic wrote:

Aslo, I'm running a Zeitronix wideband with a GM 3 bar map. I saw the hakcenter has added gm 3 bar map support. How can I wire the 3 bar map to Zeitronix *and* the sensor harness for the ecu w/o compromising the signal? And finally, how should I wire the Zeitronix wideband for Jackal? I currently have the analog wideband output going from the ZT-2 to the EGR-t input on the ECU (for logging w/ mmcd), and I'm using the purple ZT-2 wire for simulated narrowband going to the ECU's O2 sensor wire. Do I need to make any changes there?

The tunes for this project are not hex editable (in the fashion that anyone that is familiar with is used to).

You will be able to disconnect your simulated o2 signal and wire the 5v signal to the o2 wire in the ecu.... OR if that zeitronix is programmable, just change that output to the wideband output... and you can disconnect your egr-t wire because that is not needed... how else do you think we can do closed loop (which nobody really does anyway because it's lammmmmmmmeeeee).

PK code is available in the options menu as well.

--Flux

[selmerguy]

Why would you want to feed the GM map sensor wire into the Zeitronics? You will be logging using either a palm or laptop and it will show you the map and wideband allready. So no need to feed the wideband anything.

Sam

[turboawdfanatic]

FluxCapacitor wrote:

The tunes for this project are not hex editable (in the fashion that anyone that is familiar with is used to).

You will be able to disconnect your simulated o2 signal and wire the 5v signal to the o2 wire in the ecu.... OR if that zeitronix is programmable, just change that output to the wideband output... and you can disconnect your egr-t wire because that is not needed... how else do you think we can do closed loop (which nobody really does anyway because it's lammmmmmmmeeeee).

PK code is available in the options menu as well.

--Flux

Cool. Yes, w/ Zeitronix I can have that purple wire be either a simulated narrowband output, OR a linear wideband output. But, it sounds like I want to wire the analog wideband output to the ECU's O2 input rather than the EGR-t. With the PK code, can you select what PSI or load to ignore the knock sensor, or is it simply on/off? Thx!

selmerguy wrote:

Why would you want to feed the GM map sensor wire into the Zeitronics? You will be logging using either a palm or laptop and it will show you the map and wideband allready. So no need to feed the wideband anything.

Because I use the Zeitronix LCD display (it shows AFR, Lambda, Boost, and EGT w/ peak/hold feature). I prefer the LCD display on my dash to the tooner look of gauge pods. Plus, its more stealthy which is important here in SoCal.

ALSO, you can program Zeitronix to trigger a warning light/buzzer with simple or complex triggers. I have mine set to go off when I run leaner than 11.5 at 10psi or higher. Additionally, you can have the warning light/buzzer trigger a relay. So, for example, you could hook up a stock BCS to bypass your MBC and have the warning buzzer/light trigger the relay controlling the BCS, effectively cutting your boost to wastegate psi in the event that you run lean.

So...yeah...that's why I want the GM 3bar to send a signal to the Zeitronix box.

[selmerguy]

Wow that is a nice setup. I knew the Zeitronics had features but that is pretty neat. You should be ablt to send the signal wire from the map to two different inputs without hurting anything. Im not positive but I cant see how things would get messed up.

[turboawdfanatic]

Thanks! I just want to be sure that accurate voltage gets sent to Zeitronix AND the ECU. I was afraid that splicing and splitting the signal might effect that.

[FluxCapacitor]

I was thinking that too, and you might pick up line noise coming from one device or the other by splitting the signal.

I think the best option is to run two map sensors.... one for the zeitronix, and one for the ecu.... OR figure out how to use a capacitor to eliminate line noise... and some way to strengthen the signal should you decide to split it.

Also, what kind of map is going to the zeitronix, if it's not sending a signal that matches one of the map sensors that we've put into our app, then it's not going to work right anyway.

[Caution]

I'm also running this setup.
I currently use the datalogging from Zeitronix for tuning and the LCD Display to keep a couple of gauges off my dash.
The odb logg is used as a nice addition to keep track of knock, iat, idc.

I run two separate boost sensors and would not splice the GM sensor into the Zeitronix MAP input.
The logger only have support for their native boostsensors. (Caught that one Flux)
They are 50 and 75 psi. If you compare the output from these sensors they don't match.

50 psi Sensor Output: (from Zeitronix website)
0.5 volts at 0 PSI (vacuum)
4.5 volts at 50 PSI absolute pressure

3Bar GM Output: (estimated from Flux's graph i another tread)
0 volts at 0 PSI
5 volts at 43 PSI

This would throw your boost reading pretty off.

[hakcenter]

I'll get you some more info, but that 0.5 to 4.5 sounds like a delphi sensor.

I can get you the exact line I'm using for the 3bar if you want it is like 0.02v to 4.90, matches about everyones online testing.

[turboawdfanatic]

BTW I have to make a correction on this thread. I am *NOT* running a GM 3 bar map w/ Zeitronix. I am using the 3.5 bar MAP that comes w/ the Zeitronix. Don't know what I was thinking when I typed "GM 3 bar".

I talked to Crock (of Zeitronix) and he said I should be fine splitting the 3.5bar map signal. So, from reading the above posts, this sensor is not supported yet, right?

[Lowell]

turboawdfanatic wrote:

BTW I have to make a correction on this thread. I am *NOT* running a GM 3 bar map w/ Zeitronix. I am using the 2.5 bar MAP that comes w/ the Zeitronix. Don't know what I was thinking when I typed "GM 3 bar".

I talked to Crock (of Zeitronix) and he said I should be fine splitting the 3.5bar map signal. So, from reading the above posts, this sensor is not supported yet, right?

The sensor is not directly supported, but you can still use it and tune around the incorrect pressure readings.

[turboawdfanatic]

Lowell wrote:

The sensor is not directly supported, but you can still use it and tune around the incorrect pressure readings.

Could you elaborate on this? (Sorry, reviving my old thread. I've been away for a while but I'm about to purchase the necessary sensors to get Jackal up and running on my car)

How hard would it be to tune around the incorrect readings? Would it just be a matter of adjusting the VE tables until I see the AFRs that I want to see? Would there be any other negative effects? Sorry to push the issue, but money is tight right now and if I can use the MAP sensor that I'm already using for Zeitronix then all I would need to do is get the IAT sensor and make a harness.

Thanks!

[hakcenter]

What I'm going to say, is going to seem complicated and way out there. Just try to stay with me as this is the best I can explain it.

0v - 5v map sensors on the Baro line are a single 0-255byte. That is all the ecu ever sees is a numerical value of 0-255, no matter what sensor you run. For the individual if you want the table to 'look' like what the actual values of the map sensor are in realistic terms (not the 0-255 byte) that is what the extra sensor calibrations are for.

You could run the car on a freescale 5bar, and tell jackal its as gm 3bar. And as long as you tune by the logged output and onscreen table axis's, it won't matter. Just don't expect the values to relate to any gauges you have, but it does not make the ecu calculation any different. The map sensor configuration is aesthetic only.

[turboawdfanatic]

Ah, that makes sense. I'll stick w/ my Zeitronix 3.5bar and buy the IAT.

One more question: since my Map sensor already has 5v power supply and ground provided by the Zeitronix box, do I only need to splice the sensor signal to pin 7 of the 1g harness, or do I also need to splice the ground from the sensor to the harness for the ECU? I'm lost as to whether pin 7 is just for grounding the sensor or if it's a sensor ground that the ECU needs to see.

Thanks for the quick responses btw! I had heard about the great community support around here and so far it holds true.

[hakcenter]

turboawdfanatic wrote:

Ah, that makes sense. I'll stick w/ my Zeitronix 3.5bar and buy the IAT.

One more question: since my Map sensor already has 5v power supply and ground provided by the Zeitronix box, do I only need to splice the sensor signal to pin 7 of the 1g harness, or do I also need to splice the ground from the sensor to the harness for the ECU? I'm lost as to whether pin 7 is just for grounding the sensor or if it's a sensor ground that the ECU needs to see.

Thanks for the quick responses btw! I had heard about the great community support around here and so far it holds true.

Your skepticism about support is welcomed here, . lol
Look at the wiki install. Pin7 is the output of the map sensor. You are going to have to wire your Zeitronix map output to it.

[turboawdfanatic]

hakcenter wrote:

Your skepticism about support is welcomed here, . lol

lol, no skepticism here! Just happy about the good support!

hakcenter wrote:

Look at the wiki install. Pin7 is the output of the map sensor. You are going to have to wire your Zeitronix map output to it.

Yeah, I got that part, I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't necessary to connect the map sensor ground to the ECU as well. Since my map sensor has power/ground from the Zeitronix box, all I need to connect is the map output to pin 7, right? (sigh, I'm getting there...)

[hakcenter]

Ya that's about it. It would be nice if it was using the same power/ground as the ecu, but for the sake of ease you can just connect the output signal.

[turboawdfanatic]

Cool. As soon as I get the rest of the components that I need, I'll get it up and running and report back w/ how it goes (not to mention I'm sure I'll have more questions!)

Thanks!

[turboawdfanatic]

Bringing this thread back from the dead with a followup question. The answers above make perfect sense, but I was wondering which MAP sensor specs are *closest* to the Zeitronix MAP sensor.

Specs for the Zeitronix MAP:
3.5 bar Kavlico Zeitronix PN 80-2500-001
0.5 volts at 0 PSI (vacuum)
4.5 volts at 50 PSI absolute pressure
Range = 25.5 inHg (-650 mmHg) to 35.3 PSI gauge at sea level

I understand that the readings will be off in jackal from my gauge, and that I should tune by the Jackal numbers, but I'd like to select whichever MAP sensor in the gui drop down that has the closest specs.

Thanks again

[FluxCapacitor]

That kinda sounds to me like an AEM style 3.5bar.... so that's where I'd start.