E85 and Cold Starting - Startup Enrichment

[eclipsegst1990]

Well, since my E85 switch - love it btw.  I am now having cold start issues.  Takes many, many, many cranks to get the car to even turn over (feel bad for the starter).  Sometimes, it seems like I need a "choke" switch, lol.  If I don't press the gas pedal when cranking, the car seems to want to turn over more than pressing the pedal to the floor.  Lots of feathering of the pedal once I get a little firing going after "SEVERAL" circulations. 

Anyway, do any of you E85 guys have any suggestions as for startup enrichment?  You've got coolant enrichment, 120 sec startup, and IAT enrichment.  As far as the 120 second startup enrichment, does the 120 seconds reset each time you shut off the ignition and go for a restart?  Should I also play with the coolant enrichment as well?  What would be better?  I just want to get in and start the thing after a few tries, not 10 minutes of fiddling and cranking.  I have FIC 1150s if it helps any...

My 120 second is: 186* to -20*
1.47  1.53  1.58  1.73  2.41  2.59  3.00  3.80

My coolant is:  186* to -20*
 0.0  5.5  10.2  14.8  32.0  35.9  39.8  49.2

Now, when these percentages are adjusted, does it affect the entire map or a specific load zone (off boost in vac I'm assuming)? 

[hakcenter]

Enrichments are exactly as they sound. Enrichment.

Coolant -20, enrichment = +49.2% + 380% (if it is in 120 sec enrichment)

So that is allllll the time minus the 120 seconds.

I'm going to revise the the display of these values so you see the 100, so anything under 100% would be a subtraction, and anything over 100 is an addition.

ie: 110% enrichment


I'll try to figure out the injector startup pulse width, and make it available so you can have easier starts.

[eclipsegst1990]

Thanks a million.  This starting thing is killing me, lol.  FYI when starting, my wideband is pegged lean - will it give a proper reading during starting...there's no exhaust so I guess I can't rely on that huh.  I dunno, time for some cranking - gotta get home. 

[hakcenter]

Thanks a million.  This starting thing is killing me, lol.  FYI when starting, my wideband is pegged lean - will it give a proper reading during starting...there's no exhaust so I guess I can't rely on that huh.  I dunno, time for some cranking - gotta get home.

Do me a favor and try to log injector pulsewidth while starting.

[sidewaysRST]

Im interested see what you guys figure out, cuz my car did the same crap with 1200's.Finally gave up and put evo injectors in and switched back to 93 for the winter cuz i couldn't take it anymore.

[eclipsegst1990]

Sorry to hear that sideways...  I will log a pulse width and see what magic Hak can do.  One thing I've learned that there is always a solution.  Now, I increased the startup enrichment from 70* down to about 490 or so which seemed to help.  Also, double check your coolant temp sensor (internal) and make sure it is reading right.  I had a problem with that also at one point. 

[sidewaysRST]

Is it possible the winter blend e85 has any kind of relevant effect here?

[hakcenter]

Is it possible the winter blend e85 has any kind of relevant effect here?

winter has more gas so it should be 'easier' to start /shrug

[eclipsegst1990]

Frost this morning...you know what that means - NO START.  Had to wake the girl to take me to work this morning in my daily driver.  I try to be nice and take the Galant, but the cold startup is really tough.  Anyway, I attached the logs of what I could get this morning so maybe someone could figure this out.  What do the flex fuel vehicles do for morning startups in the winter?  I wonder how they combat this problem or how the flex fuel control unit/computer allocates the fuel for startup?

I wonder if I could hook up a separate injector with a 1/2 gallon of gasoline just for morning startup then switch to E85 on the fly - I dunno.  Maybe a TBI injector shooting at the throttle body shooting startup fluid.  I dunno, I'm just throwing ideas out there because this is crazy.  Once the car is warm, it drives pretty good and starts great.  Does E85 not atomize right in the cold weather?  Maybe a gas tank heater like a bottle heater for NOS - I dunno. 

[snapc33]

When I went to e85 and 1200s, I just scaled everything accordingly.  I didn't mess with the enrichment at all and I had no problems.  I did add a few degrees of timing across the board including idle areas, I also have raised the idle timing to help gain some vacuum/idle quality back after cams.  Only issue I had was during a hot start with a heat soaked IAT.

This was all in 80+ deg weather so that may play a role in things.

[hakcenter]

Try this DS3 Eclipse

[eclipsegst1990]

Not sure what you did Hak, but the damn car started right up 2nd try today in 30* weather.  Made my day!  Thanks.  Hopefully some others download this correction and enjoy cold weather E85 or whatever blend is used in the winter.  Whew!!!   Gonna give it a few more tries this week to gain my confidence in the car again. 

[hakcenter]

So it needs more or less fuel ?

The only thing that is really adjustable is the first 4 revs and the basic pulse width to use

[eclipsegst1990]

Seems like it needs more fuel, but much better on startup.  I'll get another log but so far so good.  Thanks.

[hakcenter]

How is the warm starts better / worse / the same ?

Is the ds3 I gave you more than acceptable for your cold starts ?